Using XR to Change Everything (Without Changing Anything) with Lance-AR’s Lance Anderson (2023)

Today’s guest, Lance Anderson ofLance-AR, got tired of seeing so many XR providers only help clientsachieve their stated ROI goals, then leaving them to their owndevices to scale. Lance helps those companies today, by understandingthe need to marry emerging tech with legacy systems, so disruptivetech doesn’t seem so disruptive.

Alan: Coming up on the XR forBusiness Podcast, today we’re speaking with Lance Anderson, founderand CEO of Lance-AR, a consulting and services company for enterpriseAR space, focused on helping organizations scale deployment. We’ll belearning about the challenges and learnings from his experience. Allthat and more on the XR for Business Podcast. Lance, welcome to theshow.

Lance: Hey, great, thanks forhaving me on.

Alan: My absolute pleasure. It’svery exciting to meet somebody as passionate as you are aboutbringing augmented reality to the enterprise. But before we start,explain how you got here and what is it you do for customers?

Lance: Sure. So I’m coming from— let’s just round it down, let’s call it 15 years — in theenterprise space selling software and services and automation, thingslike that. Ended up at Vuzix in 2015 and had a great run with thoseguys. Late 2018 I left Vuzix and started Lance-AR, because I was justfrustrated. Frustrated with the lack of companies deploying augmentedreality at scale. Everybody talks about the dizzying ROIs that areout there to get, and all the wonderful things and advantages thatthis technology brings. Yet no one was deploying at scale and I hadthis unique position at Vuzix — because there are so few hardwareproviders — that we were able to see thousands of pilots and POCs,in all different regions and different use cases. And we just saw somany of those either fail, sputter, or just kind of evaporate. So Iwanted to take all that knowledge and bring it to the enterprisespace and see if we could turn some things around. That’s whyLance-AR came about. And really what we do now is we connectenterprise users, AR hardware manufacturers and AR softwareproviders, the problem solvers. We connect them all in an agnosticway, and try to make sure that these folks are set up in the rightway for success, that they have a strategy for achieving success andthen for taking success and moving it into what I would call scaledeployment. So success could be a five unit pilot, but I don’tconsider it success until it’s 500 units or a 1,000 units rolling tothe company. So that’s in essence, what we do.

Alan: That’s amazing. My firstthought when you were talking about the challenges and pitfalls ofgetting caught in what they call “pilot purgatory” would beif you had to kind of focus on the five main things or six mainthings, what are those main challenges that make it so difficult togo from pilot to scale?

Lance: Everybody’s at fault,frankly. So I’ve done a lot of sales and marketing in my day. Themarketers in our industry are at fault. Promising future worlds todaythat just aren’t quite possible. There’s fault in the hardwaremanufacturers.

Alan: We’ve got to call outMicrosoft on making videos that people will go, “We want that!”

Lance: It was Microsoft, SAP didone in 2014.

Alan: Everybody’s been makingthese beautifully Hollywood produced videos on “Look at what youcan do with AR!” And then they put the glasses on and are like,“Well, why is the view cut off?” They’re like, “Oh,yeah. Well, about that…”

Lance: Not really. Not really.Well, almost. Use your imagination.

Alan: “Why is it gettinghot on my head?” You’re like, “Ah, well, you know…”

Lance: Yeah, yeah. And I look atit like it’s like back in the day. You’ve even got shysters sellingtonics, “solve every problem” tonics out of the back oftheir car. And yet there are real solutions out there, that aresolving problems and driving value.

Alan: And I think we’re startingto see that where companies that have been at this a long time, likeVuzix and the newer companies as well, like the providers that arecreating the software layers. Hololens 2, it’s been hyped and hypedand hyped. And we’re really excited, because it really is drivingvalue in enterprise. Maybe not at scale yet, which is– that’s whatwe’re here to talk about. But what are some of the sticking points?

Lance: Let’s break it down tothis: enterprise. We’re talking about enterprise deployments here.This isn’t SAS. These clients are not buying SAS. A lot of people areselling the SAS. This isn’t set it and forget it. Sell me one pilot,sell me one license, a pair of glasses, and then I’ll take it fromhere and deploy a thousand units. There is a dichotomy of what’sbeing sold. Most people are talking to the C-suite and they’reselling digital transformation. Transformational AR, the new way ofworking. But they’re also getting budget and getting paid solvingproblem-specific ROI for operation. Those two are dichotomous. Sothey sell five units, five licenses. “Here’s my platformlicense. Here’s the hardware. We solved your problem. We deliveredROI for these five users.” And it’s like hands in the air, “Goodluck, god bless.” And they’re expecting these organizations —these large enterprise organizations — to take those five units andproliferate it throughout their business and turn that into 5,000.And that’s really where Lance-AR comes in. And that’s where we saw amassive gap. It’s really in the services side. So one of the thingswe brought out — we actually brought it out at AWE this year andreally leaned into it at the EWTS show this fall — was what we callour process engineering services, aftermarket sales, right? So whatwe found was the service providers and the harder providers wereselling– they weren’t selling success. They were selling the start.Which is these pilots and all that. We come in after the fact, and webring in the knowledge/expertise, the engineering knowledge/expertisefor manufacturing, or logistics, or whatever it might be. That alsohas the AR experience. And we work with these clients to say, “OK,you got your first process onto this new platform. So what about yourother 999 processes? How do we prioritize them? How do we take careof the back end that will make these a reality?” Some of theseprocesses are easy to move into a head-worn AR space. Some of themrequire all kinds of data connectivity to siloed data in yourorganization, and they will require other projects to be done justbefore we can do this. So we try to look at all that, help themthrough this and start them on this longer term — not long term, butlonger term — iterative transitional process. I hate the worddisruption and frankly, most people in business hate the worddisruption. No one wants their operation disrupted. They want totransform.

Alan: What did you call that,because I think this is– we need to emphasize this. “Theiterative–“

Lance: It’s the iterativetransformation or the iterative deployment of augmentedreality/virtual reality within your business organization.

Alan: I think the keyword therebeing “iterative.” People think you’re going to just buythis SAS software, install it, and it works perfectly forever.They’re missing the part about where you have to make the content forit. And you’ll have to make the content for one job role, it’s goingto be different than another one. Now, there’s going to be overlaps,but it’s knowing where those overlaps are where you can take piecesfrom the other one and bring them in. I think what you’re doing isvery smart, because we’re also seeing the same thing where we’refocused kind of on the training side of things. But if you make onetraining module, it does not translate to every role in the company.Maybe there’s overlap, maybe can you re-use the graphics or theinteractions, but every role within a company has its own distincttraining algorithms, and same with when you’re going through digitaltransformation of things using AR. Pick-n-pack is not the same asdriving a forklift.

Lance: Exactly right. Andtraining is a good example. I’d like to get back to that in a minute.But before, just to finish this first thought out, another area thatI think our software providers are really missing, is the fact thatyou can’t sell something that is just completely new into anenterprise organization effectively. That enterprise is runningtoday. That factory is open. It has to run. It has to churn outtires, cars, parts, whatever it is. Disrupting that, stopping that,removing all of their — or a huge chunk of their — existingprocesses and putting this one in, it’s just not going to happen.That’s not the way business works, it’s too much of a risk. There’stoo much of a fiduciary risk and operations risk and all that stuff.And I’d say one of our clients — LogistiVIEW, they’re in thelogistic space — and originally they were going after new greenfieldsystems. The ROI was there their technology could save millions ofdollars, yet it wasn’t getting traction. What they learned was wehave to exist within this existing ecosystem of these warehouses, andwe changed their tagline to “change everything without changinganything.” And what that means is, they developed their brandnew AR AI computer vision software to work with antiquated AS400green screen systems that are the reality of how these manufacturingand logistic plants are operate, and created that interface in thatat filter — I guess is probably a better way to put it — and mergerso that these companies don’t have to change their core backendsystems to use this new technology. And now that they’re starting touse this new technology, it’s these organizations themselves that areraising their hands and saying, “Hey, wait a minute, could weuse it over here? Could we add it over here, now that we’reconnected? Wow. Look at all the great stuff we can do.” Andlogistics business has exploded recently due to this change. And Ithink they’re a fantastic example of what’s been going wrong in thisindustry, which was here’s our great new technology. It’s so awesome,Mr. Enterprise User, that you should change all your backend systems,and come over and do things our way. That’s just not the way of theworld. And we’re in that transition right now.

Alan: I think you nailed it with“change everything without changing anything.” That is justa brilliant tagline. And if you think about it from an enterprisestandpoint, that changing anything in a line, unless it’s going tocreate massive value in the 10, 20, 30 percent improvement range,it’s risky. I think augmented reality and virtual reality and thesetechnologies now, they do drive that kind of warranted rollout. Butthen how do you do that in a way that doesn’t disrupt? And I thinkyou nailed it with kind of synchronizing with legacy systems, eventhough very difficult to do. You’re taking cutting edge things thatare run on cloud and edge with antiquated systems that are buried inservers on-prem, and trying to marry that together. It’s interesting.And I love your point about selling this stuff is not SAS. And somany startups that I see — pretty much everyone — it’s a SAS playthat they’re working with, and it’s very difficult when the contentdoesn’t exist for the roles that you’re looking to work on.

Lance: Content is key. So let’s go back to your training example, because I think it’s a brilliant one. So most training, you were seeing the majority of that is in the VR space. Makes perfect sense. Great opportunity for it. I love training, because training departments have budgets — A. They — B — they are generally looking for new technology and new ways to train their workforce. And C, they look for mobile training, getting it out of the classroom, making it more realistic, situational training, and all that. As you know, there’s a significant content creation play there. But what what I also see is–

Alan: I know, right?

Lance: Well, think about that,yeah. You know, you know all too well.

Alan: There’s a reason westarted our own accelerator to bring the whole community together. Wesee this– look, there’s a lot of content providers in the worldmaking amazing things. But fast forward three years, there won’t benearly enough content creators to satisfy the needs of any of thesecompanies at scale.

Lance: Well, it’s the sameproblem, Alan. So think about it. So there’s two things that need tobe done. So creating net new content in this new way is simple.There’s actually better ways to do it now. But companies have most ofeverything they have is not net new content. It’s old content thathas to be changed, and moved, and morphed. And who owns the process?Who owns the updating of the process? Is it the training group? Is itthe operations group? Is it– do we even know? It’s half the problem.So–

Alan: We’re working with aclient now and we said, “OK, so we’re gonna train your employeesin this role. And do you have a manual?” And they gave us themanual, but it was the instruction manual of the computer that theywork on. It was like written in DOS 2.0.

Lance: Love it.

Alan: I was like, “OK, sothis is nice. So where’s the manual you give to the staff?” andthey’re like, “That’s it.” It’s like, oh my God, you can’tread this thing. It’s impossible.

Lance: Right. Sprinkle in alittle tribal knowledge on top of that, that isn’t written downanywhere. All this kind of stuff.

Alan: Exactly.

Lance: But so think about this.So whatever content you do create in the VR space for training,alright? Very few people have thought about the investment that youmake there. What percentage of that could the worker take with themon a pair of AR glasses? Oh, now wait a minute. So there’s trainingthat you have in their classrooms. Let’s– I’m going to give you asimple number. So one third of it is, you have that training onetime, you get it, you got it. Good. It’s in your head, you moveforward with it. Another 30 percent, gosh, maybe you don’t use iteveryday. You don’t use it every week. And it would be great if whileI was on the job after training, where I could just click onsomething and see a quick video or get a quick little reminder.Refresher training, let’s call it little telementor on your shoulder.And then there’s 30 percent of training that you’re just never goingto get right. And you really need — in the field — to be takenthrough step one, step two, step three, step four. But the contentthat you guys create on the VR side, that investment — and we’retalking to the C level and the B level here — the investment youmake there can trickle down. And move into your AR and your worker onthe floor experience, if you’re going to give them some type ofmobile way to consume them, then let’s let those workers feed backinto the system. If there’s a part they’re working on that there isno video for, there is no training for. Well, maybe they could filmpoint of view themselves and walk people through the training of it.And have this system that starts to work within itself. And the wholething is connected. It’s a much bigger investment. It’s much biggerthan just the hardware you purchase with the SAS that you purchase.It’s a mindset of how we’re going to capture data, create content,always update that content and keep this thing moving forward. It’sjust not as a static thing that everybody thinks it is.

Alan: Absolutely. It’smultifaceted, but I think there’s also the ability in the last, Iwould say 24 months, 360 content, for example, you had to stitchevery scene together and it was thousands of dollars a minute. I canbuy a camera now for 500 bucks. It shoots better than we wereshooting three years ago and it stitches on my phone. And I canliterally make a quick training thing on my phone and publish it to aVR headset in an hour. So you’ve got that kind of low-end side ofthings, where companies can start to create their own content. Thenyou’ve got higher-end things where maybe you want to have full handson training of something. You need to bring in a machine or inlocation, and that sort of thing. But as this range of content startsto be made, there’s gonna start to be similarities. And we’re notseeing it yet, because not enough people are working on it. Butthere’s gonna be similarities, where if I do a fire safety warehousetraining, turns out that will work for pretty much any warehouse, Ican transfer it. And so being able to transfer the knowledge from onecompany to another is also something that nobody is looking at yet.

Lance: I agree. And so a lot offolks are selling to the actual end user, but why not sell to theprovider? So if I’m a provider of, let’s say, conveyor technology fora warehouse, I should be providing and updating all that trainingmaterial that can be consumed either through VR or AR. But that’s myresponsibility, not the employer’s responsibility to keep up withyour changes and your manuals and all that kind of stuff. And if wecan create a little environment where individuals could tap into thatknowledge base, that would be great.

Alan: Well, the problem withthat is you need to make sure that everybody’s synchronized, becauseif my company bought Oculus Go headsets for training and then mysupplier comes along, goes, “Hey, we just made this training inVR, but it only works on the HTC Vive.” you’re like “Oh,OK.” There’s no standardization and all VR is not made equally,as we know. Or AR, for that matter. And there’s going to be a hugerange of quality types and compatibility issues and all this, so–

Lance: Alan, standardization isnot on the table for the next three to five years. We will get there,because if this technology is going to mature and become ubiquitous— like most of us think it will — we will get to standardization.We will get to commonalities that make all this simple because theclients and the users will demand it. They will demand thatsimplicity. They will demand that interoperability. But this warisn’t done yet. And so what we tell clients is — actually I’m gladyou brought this up, it’s a great segue — one of the next biggesthurdles is companies trying to decide on one physical platform thatthey’re going to go forward with. And that means a brand. Is it VR,is it AR, is it a brand? And even for the software, we’re going tochoose this one software provider. That’s not going to get us there.

Alan: Obviously. I mean, comeon.

Lance: It’s not going to get usthere. Yeah, I know. Right.

Alan: 1990’s calling, they wanttheir business model back.

Lance: [laughs] Exactly. So whatwe try to impart through Lance-AR is we talked about the iterativeprocess improvements and process engineering that we do. We also havean iterative model that helps companies go from “Let’s vet thisidea, breed innovation department” into “This comes out,let’s go get budget and funding and KPI agreements.” Everybodyforgets to do that. Let’s make sure the C level and the IT and HR andoperations and everybody is very clear on what they would agree issuccess or not. And then we agree on what we’ll do if we aresuccessful before we start. And if you don’t do that, don’t start. Gospend your money on– I don’t know, take everybody out to a ballgame.You’re better off getting value out of that. But you do that and theniterate. And it’s a circular process. And while your company istaking the one good idea they decided on and moving that intooperations, your IT department should be looking at the next round ofphysical hardware that’s coming in. So you’re not waiting for that.You just kind of keep these circles going and–

Alan: Wouldn’t it be great ifthere was a consultant or somebody you could just hire, that wouldjust keep you abreast of all this and work with your IT teams to justkeep you on top of this? Wouldn’t that be amazing?

Lance: That would be amazing. Idon’t know, I’m scratching my head. I think I know some guy thatmight be able to help with that.

Alan: I’m going to Google ithere. I think it’s Lance,

Lance: That’s a great place tostart. That’s a great place to start. You know, but this stuff isn’teasy, Alan, and that’s what it is.

Alan: It’s not easy! You andI’ve been studying this shit for years and it’s complicated, becauseevery day a new headset comes out and every day a new platform comesout.

Lance: Yep.

Alan: The way I liken this —and I’ve said it before in the podcast — is how do you disrupt anindustry constantly and consistently disrupting itself?

Lance: Yeah, it’s– well, youhave to plan for this technology to continue and consistentlyiterate. So what you deploy– and remember, in enterprise, they’dlike to let me buy this piece of conveyor, run it for the next 20years. Sorry, that’s not where this is going. And so companies needto change. They need to change their mantra and understand. That’swhy actually one of the things we’re coming out with — and I guess Ican show this — is we’re coming out with Lance-AR will be providingleasing terms, for leasing for hardware, leasing for software,leasing for applications. We also provide a deployment services,provisioning, warranty service, and things like that, because that’show companies want to buy, especially when they want to protectthemselves from missing the next great tech that’s coming next. Butthat’s a side note. We can do that on a subsequent– we’ll do thatnext year, when that’s actually in the market for us. And there’sother things we’re doing too, Alan. I don’t want to share everythingright now, but we are going to provide the world with an agnostichardware validation, applicability, and use case affirmation site. Wewant to have one area where everybody can come and start tounderstand what these technologies can do. I hate, hate, hate whenpeople ask me, “Lance, what’s the best AR headset on themarket?” It’s impossible.

Alan: I can tell you that. Iknow the answer to that.

Lance: Yeah? What’s that?

Alan: You ready? It’s the onethat matches your needs and budget.

Lance: Amen.

Alan: Is that the right answer?

Lance: Do you know how much theyhate that answer? Do you know how much they hate that answer?

Alan: They *hate* that answer!“Why can’t I just buy one headset and do it all?”

Lance: It’s like, what a copout.What a copout answer, right? So we’re gonna provide something thatallows people to kind of self-segment themselves. “My name isJoe. I work in Europe. I’m doing manufacturing, I’m trying to dothis, that, and the other thing,” and we’re gonna get you downto a smaller selection and also let you know what’s coming next. Sowe’re looking at that kind of stuff. And then we talked about contentcreation. That’s a big issue, people.

Alan: We spent an enormousamount of time– well, I spent an enormous amount of time onLinkedIn, building a community, becoming friends with all sorts ofcontent providers all over the world, amazing people doing incrediblethings. And we’ve kept a database of all of them. And so I think wehave a pretty good advantage in the fact that we have access tocontent providers all around the world at all different levels ofquality in different fields. VR, AR, MR, volumetric capture, spatialaudio, you name it. And I think this is really going to be– youmentioned right at the beginning. Content is one of those thingswhere it’s constant, it’s never ending. And so how do you harness thepower of the entire XR community to service the needs of thesecustomers? As this becomes — like you said — everybody is going towant this. As soon as they realize that that training that used totake us two weeks, and we had to fly everybody in, now we can sendthem a headset and they’re trained before they even step foot on thefloor. Hello? This is going to be a thing.

Lance: It’s amazing. And youalso just struck on something there where the XR community isstarting to build all this stuff for the users. Let’s define the worduser. So there’s users. There’s the CEO of Fortune 500 Company X,that we’re considering a user because he or she is writing the check.Users are the people who wear these devices and actually do real workeveryday, and don’t just push emails back and forth. Those folks. Andthis is another pet peeve of mine. And it’s more than a pet peeve.It’s a–

Alan: Those guys. Who needsbuy-in from the people actually use them? Psh!

Lance: “Whatever. Here, usethis.” This is– well, at least not in the US and Europe. That’snot how we operate. And that’s not how our workers operate. Thatactually is a little bit different in China and some of the Asiancountries. And they’re actually getting pull-through. There’s adiscussion there, and we don’t have time to get into it today. But mypoint is this for the user is and I want to talk about efficacy andstickiness of this technology. We all know see-what-I-see.Everybody’s heard about it. Telepresence, telementoring, tele remotesupport, whatever you want to call it. And we all talk about thisbeing the number one use case for AR headsets today. It’s not sticky.That’s the problem. In most use cases, it is a once a day, once aweek use case. That’s just not enough. And the problem is, whenpeople then go ahead and try to turn it on that one day a week,connectivity. Gosh, exactly how did I enter my password? And whatbutton do I press and how do I do it? So the UX is a big problem,user interface. I was talking with Audi, who were doing– they wereusing VR. And they want to use it in their dealerships. And here’sthe deal. When someone walks into a dealership, they’re there to buya car, not use VR. And if you want them to have this really cool VRexperience and all that kind of stuff, you’ve got about two minutes,maybe three minutes of their attention span. You can’t spend fiveminutes training them how to enjoy that two minute experience. It’sgotta be intuitive. It has to be natural. And what is natural today?Well, that’s changing. And for us in the VR/AR headset space, let’slook at what else is going on. Voice is everywhere. Let’s use voice.Hand gesture control, hand using hand gestures. What is it. GooglePixel came out. So, yeah, we’re gonna enable some gestures and it’ssuper limited and all that stuff. But whatever, they see it, they seeits coming. I was in my friend’s BMW the other day, and he was justswinging his hand around, changing the radio station, using gesturecontrol.

Alan: Yeah, I actually got totry the the Ultrahaptics thing on the weekend and you basically goesin VR. And I reached out– I was playing tic-tac-toe with an avatar,and I reached out and it felt like I could feel it in midair or Icould feel like I was touching something. But it was it was almostlike a minor electric shock. Like, you know, when you lick a battery,that kind of feeling. It was really just– it was a weird sensation.I don’t know. It wasn’t comfortable for me, but they’re trying tomake it so that when midair, you just reach out, you feel somethingand you turn it like in a car, you just kind of reach out. But it’slike, okay, well, that’s called a knob and it’s right there below myhand. What do I need it in 3D space for?

Lance: Alan, it’s the same thingas we’re talking up before. Like the “change everything withoutchanging anything” concept of our new technology needs to beable to work with old data systems. Well, our new technology, the waythe human being who wears it interfaces with it needs to jive withtheir current experiences. Swiping, we’re all using swipe on ourphones and our iPads.

Alan: Only on Tinder.

Lance: [laughs] But if you canuse that with a pair of smart glasses when you expect to use it, whenI want to move a menu or something like that. Wow. Then it justbecomes natural. We’re all talking to our Echos and our Amazon andall this kind of stuff, for good or bad. I want to talk to mydevice. I should be able to do it. We have to look back. Our UX needsto look back before it looks forward. I guess it’s really me.

Alan: But I agree with you 100percent. And two things that came up this week were the originalHololens interactions, where we had the kind of clicky thing andpoint click, and it was amazing. We’ve done hundreds, maybe thousandsof demos on the Hololens. And one thing that I always watched wasthat anybody over 30 had trouble with that, learning that littlemechanism of pointing your finger up and then flipping it down. —What do they call it? I can’t remember, anyway. — But it wasnatural. They just reach out and like they would reach out in reallife and touch things. And the new Hololens 2 interactions are allkind of around that real gesture base. They learned anybody– any oftheir actual customers are trying to poke at it in midair. They’relike, wait a second, this is not working. But the interactions withyour hands are going to be very close to being naturally part ofreaching out, reaching and grabbing a hologram. And it’s gonna bevery exciting. And we’re almost there.

Lance: We’re gonna get there.We’re gonna get there, Alan. We are.

Alan: The Quest hand tracking iscoming in January and the Hololens 2. Even though there was anarticle today saying that’s shipping. That article was misleading, itsaid we are taking your orders now.

Lance: I put it this way. Thereis so much incredibly valuable, useful stuff that can be done todaywith the technology we have today, physical, with the software thatexists today, with the UI that exists today. Being able to use an RGBcamera to give myself a thumbs up as a confirmation. I don’t carewhat language you speak. I don’t care where you’re from. That’ssimple. It’s simple and it’s effective and it works. And the more weuse the technology that is available today. The more the money isgoing to flow in, and support businesses that are– they’re on thebrink. A lot of these software folks are on the brink, or they’reusing investor dollars. And if we don’t help them and pay for whatthey’re doing today, they won’t innovate for tomorrow. And ourinnovation will actually take a hit. We won’t innovate as fast enoughif we’re just trying to stay alive. And on the software side that’svery, very true. On the hardware side that’s very true. Hardwarecompanies need to be very honest with what they’re doing. I thoughtRealWear did a great job of that. They unabashedly said we aredesigned to be worn with a hardhat for the field worker. If you wantto use our technology anywhere else, good luck, god bless. Enjoy it.We’ll try to help you a little bit, but that’s what it was designedfor. And that’s why those guys sold more headsets in North Americaand Europe than anyone else. They had focus.

Alan: They had focus, and itturns out they went the most simple route. And sometimes we’reovercomplicating this stuff. But I’m going to end on this quote thatyou just quoted, and I think it’s a great way to to wrap this up.“Let’s use the technology of today to pay for the innovation oftomorrow.”

Lance: You got it. AR for today.We call it the now term, right? Not for the distant future. There’s alot of AR solutions that impact your current business cycles that canbe iteratively expanded throughout your organization if you plancorrectly. If you really take this industry for what it is right nowand understand it, there’s a lot of success that can be had. And weat Lance-AR would love to be your partner in helping you. And Ireally thank you for your time, Alan.

Alan: It’s been my pleasure.Thank you so much, everybody. This has been the XR for BusinessPodcast with your host, Alan Smithson, and my guest, Lance Andersonof Lance-AR. You can visit them at

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